The Two Faces of Atheism
May 2nd, 2008
by Brian J. Sabel
I don’t think it’s completely out of line to conjecture that a large proportion of the American population believes that “you atheists are all alike.” Frankly, I think we’re hard-wired to make these kinds of overgeneralizations. Ah, but only if it were that easy! If atheists were, in fact, “all alike,” we might see some semblance of consensus in the atheist community – something we seem to have far too little of. Herding cats, anyone?
In my estimation, atheists seem to split into two distinct, and frequently antagonistic, factions. In one corner we have what I will call the Joiners. These are the atheists who do not view themselves as any different than their religious counterparts except that they happen to believe in one fewer god. This group wants to exemplify their commonalities with their community members and seek consensus with persons of differing religious views. This group views a pervasively religious society as a fact of life in which to which the atheist must adapt.
In the other corner we have the Converters. These atheists see themselves as different from religious persons by virtue of the fact that they have thrown off the yoke of religion. They strive to boldly differentiate themselves from the religious and point out the inherent weaknesses in religious thought. They see a pervasively religious society as an illness to be cured by unseating religion in the minds of the masses.
These, of course, are convenient overgeneralizations and many atheists may fall somewhere in between these two descriptions. Further, I may have overlooked some important distinctions. However, my point is that two distinct schools of thought seem to motivate most atheists. What roles do these two perspectives play in the atheist community? Is there room for both? Why do the two find themselves so frequently at odds?
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I’ll go first!
I think the two distinct perspectives are important in their own way. In the interest of full disclosure I fall pretty squarely into the Joiners group. I think atheists will be far better served by proving to religious persons that we have common interests by working alongside them toward common goals. The hope is that they will conclude, “I know an atheist – he’s pretty cool. Maybe I shouldn’t tolerate people suppressing atheists and their rights.”
I see the Converters as having the laudable but ultimately frustrating goal of creating a world without religion. As much as I would love to see that happen, I think religion will die with the last human. But more importantly, I see the Converters as employing tactics which actually undermine atheists’ ability to advance their interests. Aggressive and disrespectful activism, no matter how philosophically sound, results in people concluding, “I know an atheist – he’s a real asshole. Maybe atheists are a threat to me and my values.”
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I don’t know who said it, but:
“There are thousands of types of people in the world. Those that divide the world into two type of people, and the thousands of other types.”
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Or more simply the “faith is a virtue” atheists and the “faith is insanity” atheists.
It breaks down into wheter or not a person is an antitheist. So, it is all politics. Well, technically ideology.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I am really sorry to see how brain washed you “thinkers” are. Its unfortunate that you are too smart for you own good Brian. I don’t know where the train left the tracks in your life but the end result is very unfortunate. Thanks for leaving your family behind. Ass!
May 4th, 2008 at 3:03 am
I have no idea what’s going on here!
But for some reason I suspect that I know who this poster is. Regardless, I have a really difficult time understanding how one can be too smart for his own good. Further, if I were so smart doesn’t it seem like I would be difficult to brainwash? And if I were brainwashed, who exactly would brainwash me? If I were susceptible to brainwashing I assure you that I would be far more likely to be extremely religious rather than an atheist!
May 6th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Okay, as entertaining as the last two comments have been, I think I’ve managed to derail the conversation!
Referring back to Mr. Skinner’s comment, I agree with your general sentiment but I see something more complex there. I think the Joiners may not see faith as a virtue but, rather, an unavoidable cultural reality. I don’t think faith is virtuous, but I also don’t see it as insanity. It just is. I think it would be great if people would give up on faith but good luck with that one!
I also see some ambiguity in “antitheist.” I oppose religious thought - I think it is ultimately more harmful than beneficial. However, I don’t see it as being helpful to get up in someone’s grill about their religion. So I guess I’m still an antitheist but I try to be more diplomatic than militant about it.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I think you’re leaving out an entirely other point of view, when the only options you see are those who want to either find commonality with believers or antagonize them. Many atheists have no desire to do either - they want simply to have the freedom to exist as a non-theist without harassment.
I also can’t help but notice that you’re pretty sure that the joiners will be seen as “cool” and the converters will be seen as “assholes.” I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of assholes who think they want to work with believers, and plenty of cool people who are against religion.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
You are absolutely right, “None of the above.” In fact, I would be willing to argue that the neutral group you pointed out is a silent majority. But they are silent, which is why it’s difficult to make any kinds of conclusions about them. And that is exactly the problem. Only the most vocal minorities of a minority group shape the public perception of that minority group. Given the two vocal minorities I pointed out I don’t think it’s unfair to say that between two, the general public is more comfortable with the Joiners.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
For sure, the more vocal folks in any group define the group for outsiders. That’s why theists who are comfortable catagorizing atheists as all alike probably see them in what you describe as the asshole “converters” category.
As for why there might be friction between the (overlapping) converter, joiner, and NOTA folks? Well, I know as a converter, it frustrates me when joiners let religious BS impinge on our liberties. As a joiner, ignorant bombastic converter-types who poorly represent atheists make my gut wrench. And as a NOTA, I actively try to pry into other people’s business until it impacts me, and wish converters and joiners would do likewise.
July 9th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
“… try to pry into other people’s business …”
Oops. I meant
“… try NOT to pry into other people’s business …”